TZ pro, premium or LE???

[tastef]

Hey everyone.
I was thinking all of this none sense that Stern has started about changing PF's and game play on the same game, depending on what people choose and bought (pro, Premium or LE). What if Williams Bally had did the same thing 20 years ago....
Would TZ pro come with no mini playfield, no Gumball machine (or just a non working gumball machine) and no clock?
Would they elimate the power ball multiball with no gumball machine??? :FP:
Would the LE be selling for 10 000$ :FP: :FP:

As for other games, would Road Show preminum come with only one talking head, and which one, Red or Ted??? :lol:

I'd like to read what others think about this......

 

[Vengeance]

I don't care, it's a smart business model and it's working.

I buy what I think will be the better game.

and in most cases the pro has been the better model anyway.

TF - Pro is best
ACDC - I prefer the pro
Xmen - Pro is just fine, LE features are underutilized.
Avengers - Pro is exactly the same (The LE pats do nothing to gameplay)
Avatar - Pro is better, powerball is stupid
Rolling Stones - Pro is better powerball is stupid

So I don't understand your argument, I'm hoping Metallica will break the mold but as it stands right now, in every instance of an LE the Pro is the better playing model anyway.

So what are you upset about? If you want the extra bling, pay for it. If you don't buy the pro and be happy that it's the better playing machine anyway.

 

[hippochrome]

Interesting topic!

TZ...if I remember was/is still the most expensive pinball machine ever made. So yeah, they'd be costing stuff out.

Pro:
-no clock
-non working gumball machine
-one awkward flipper on mini PF instead of magnets
-no powerball
-no automatic extra shooting lane

LE:
-Would have everything, and the extra magnets mod that William's originally took out.
-Would be $10,000
-Wouldn't sell because who gives a shit about that theme these days?

And I think the pro would be better; which isn't saying much because TZ is a snorefest
I find the clock useless, working gumball machine is a boring toy, magnets and powerball are neat but unnecessary.

 

[Vengeance]

I find the clock useless, working gumball machine is a boring toy, magnets and powerball are neat but unnecessary.

:FP:

Clock is a great way to deal with the age old mode timer and has great integration into the modes Clock Chaos and Clock Millions. A simple elegant toy that fits really well into the machine and is utilized perfectly.

Magnets are a huge asset as they change the overall gameplay especially during multiball. During the multiball the upper left magnet stops the ball for jackpot shots and the right magnet stops the ball for camera shots to relight the jackpot. Without them, shots to the camera would be very, very difficult as the ball comes screaming around that orbit from a left orbit shot. Then add in the integration of the magnets in the spiral mode and you have another smart integration of a feature.

The powerball is such an awesome simple toy, suprise to player with a much faster moving ball and then create strategy around it so if you play against anyone you have to make sure you are the one that utilizes it. The powerball multiball is also a blast. Then add in the fact that they put in the software a super jackpot during the multiball if you hit the jackpot with the powerball.

Everything in TZ has a purpose and works well, unlike most Stern LE's where the LE features are after thoughts and just thrown on the PF. You want to play something that is useless try playing the Ironhide mini PF on a TF LE.

 

[tastef]

I don't care, it's a smart business model and it's working.

I buy what I think will be the better game.

and in most cases the pro has been the better model anyway.

TF - Pro is best
ACDC - I prefer the pro
Xmen - Pro is just fine, LE features are underutilized.
Avengers - Pro is exactly the same (The LE pats do nothing to gameplay)
Avatar - Pro is better, powerball is stupid
Rolling Stones - Pro is better powerball is stupid

So I don't understand your argument, I'm hoping Metallica will break the mold but as it stands right now, in every instance of an LE the Pro is the better playing model anyway.

So what are you upset about? If you want the extra bling, pay for it. If you don't buy the pro and be happy that it's the better playing machine anyway.

I'm not upset at all, I was just wondering what other members thought about this.
I totally agree with you.
Thanks for your comment, it's always very interresting to read what you think about these subjects.

 

[hippochrome]

I find the clock useless, working gumball machine is a boring toy, magnets and powerball are neat but unnecessary.

:FP:


Everything in TZ has a purpose and works well, unlike most Stern LE's where the LE features are after thoughts and just thrown on the PF. You want to play something that is useless try playing the Ironhide mini PF on a TF LE.

That is why Williams/Bally was better at making pinball...I bet they could have made great LE/Pro differences in games. Although they may have had a strike by their designers when told to cut a $1500 out of each machine to make a pro version :roll:

 

[Vengeance]

I'm not upset at all, I was just wondering what other members thought about this.
I totally agree with you.
Thanks for your comment, it's always very interresting to read what you think about these subjects.

Sorry, sometimes the tone is lost in a post, it sounded like this was going to turn into a pinside bitch fest about Stern being too expensive

 

[Menace]

Bally / WMS would never have moved to this whole pro/prem/LE model of business. They were always the top of the food chain when it came to pinball, and they marketed themselves as such. You buy BLY/WMS, you knew you were getting the best of the best.

That's my take on it.

D

 

[hippochrome]

Bally / WMS would never have moved to this whole pro/prem/LE model of business. They were always the top of the food chain when it came to pinball, and they marketed themselves as such. You buy BLY/WMS, you knew you were getting the best of the best.

That's my take on it.

D

I dunno.
In the P2K days Gomez said he petitioned to have two ranges of pinball, and the traditional style pinball would be their "budget" line, and P2K would be the Cadillac games.

 

[Vengeance]

I dunno.
In the P2K days Gomez said he petitioned to have two ranges of pinball, and the traditional style pinball would be their "budget" line, and P2K would be the Cadillac games.

Yea but at that time they already had one foot out the door anyway.

 

[hippochrome]

I dunno.
In the P2K days Gomez said he petitioned to have two ranges of pinball, and the traditional style pinball would be their "budget" line, and P2K would be the Cadillac games.

Yea but at that time they already had one foot out the door anyway.

Probably Stern's feeling the past 10yrs as well (i.e. any year they could go belly up)....and why he's doing the Pro/LE styles. Glad he's found a way to keep making pinball for us!

 

[Vengeance]

Probably Stern's feeling the past 10yrs as well (i.e. any year they could go belly up)....and why he's doing the Pro/LE styles. Glad he's found a way to keep making pinball for us!

Not so much, Bally/Williams had greener pastures in the slot machine market to go to and was just removing the anchor that was pinball.

Stern has nothing else, so I think for them they felt more like 1 foot in the grave, rather then out the door

 

[DRANO]

JJP really fanned the flames on this whole LE movement by stating that they were the only company that was going to meet the needs of the collector market.

Earlier Stern LEs (LOTR, SM) were simply a cash grab to re-run an exisiting license and squeeze a little more juice out of it.
After WOZ was announced, Stern had to respond to the ever increasing collector market that was demanding more bling and was spending the money to add it to their games anyway.

 

[movingpictures]

While I won't ever buy an LE or PREM, I'm glad stern is making them.
(OK, a Rush - Moving Pictures LE being the exception)

The new models have allowed Stern to not only survive, but begin to prosper.
Those games are a huge boost to their bottom line and that is good for all pinball players.
For me personally, I have yet to see an LE come anywhere close to passing my rigid cost-benefit analysis :mrgreen:

One thing I wish stern would fix is the shit sound system they put in the games.
Honestly, Metallica sounds like it is being played through a shitty car radio 20 years ago.
Especially for the music pins, get the sound somewhere close to passable.
It would cost them very little to upgrade their stock components.
Even if they pass on the cost people would pay it.
Those who care about sound end up paying anyway when they do it themselves.

Hell, my old demo man sounded 10x better than Metallica and it came out in 1994. Go figure :x

 

[hippochrome]

One thing I wish stern would fix is the shit sound system they put in the games.
Honestly, Metallica sounds like it is being played through a shitty car radio 20 years ago.
:x

It's funny, I was watching the YouTube vid of Lyman playing Metalica. About half way through, the machine
(in a rock n' voice) tells him "we are really enjoying watching you play pinball!" Or something like that. LOL!

Lyman just shook his head...and the coolness of the game was instantly gone for me :FP:

 

[movingpictures]

One thing I wish stern would fix is the shit sound system they put in the games.
Honestly, Metallica sounds like it is being played through a shitty car radio 20 years ago.
:x

It's funny, I was watching the YouTube vid of Lyman playing Metalica. About half way through, the machine
(in a rock n' voice) tells him "we are really enjoying watching you play pinball!" Or something like that. LOL!

Lyman just shook his head...and the coolness of the game was instantly gone for me :FP:

That was definitely the film crew and not the machine.
They also clap for him at the end of ball 3 not realizing he has an extra ball.
:FP:

 

[hippochrome]

One thing I wish stern would fix is the shit sound system they put in the games.
Honestly, Metallica sounds like it is being played through a shitty car radio 20 years ago.
:x

It's funny, I was watching the YouTube vid of Lyman playing Metalica. About half way through, the machine
(in a rock n' voice) tells him "we are really enjoying watching you play pinball!" Or something like that. LOL!

Lyman just shook his head...and the coolness of the game was instantly gone for me :FP:

That was definitely the film crew and not the machine.
They also clap for him at the end of ball 3 not realizing he has an extra ball.
:FP:

Oh, gawd...I hope so! It sounded like it was Lars saying it.

 

[hippochrome]

It's around 7:30min in the video "we're having a blast watching you play by the way"....same guy yells out "hit the ramp" later on. Don't tell me the camera crew is telling Lyman how to play. Seriously makes me think its the machine saying that crap!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzxc59Y6GcA

 

[movingpictures]

It's around 7:30min in the video "we're having a blast watching you play by the way"....same guy yells out "hit the ramp" later on. Don't tell me the camera crew is telling Lyman how to play. Seriously makes me think its the machine saying that crap!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzxc59Y6GcA

I've watched it and can say with 100% certainty it is the crew.

Hit the ramp on the other hand is the game.
As you make combo shots, the band cheers you on.

 

[the Rider]

It was better when stern had one version on the production line, bigger budjet for the same pin instead of divising by 2 or 3 for each version. Think TSPP and lotr, lots of toys and gimmicks for a realistic price. LE's are cash grabs nothing more.