Mana Pinball Update

[MrMikeman]

Been thinking about this. Now I'm not saying this is what happened, but if Mana was offering things like "No tax" or "Free shipping", then they did in fact break the terms of their contract with Stern.

Corporate/business accounting isn't open for interpretation. There is no such thing as "free" in the accounting world. I can assure you that Day & Ross aren't moving cargo for free. Let's say they are paid $500 for their services.

For example, if they have to Mana a product for a minimum price of $10,000, and were offering "free shipping" then in reality, the commercial transaction is $10,000-$500 in shipping = $9500. This would mean that Mana were breaking the terms of their contract with Stern by selling under the minimum price.

Creative accounting isn't a thing in the real corporate/business world.

Obviously as customers we only care about the lowest cost to our wallet, but as a distributor you have to play by the rules and alternate realities of accounting for business expenses don't apply.

This is all speculation on my part at this point as I hadn't had a chance to buy a Stern from Mana yet. Also not saying I agree with how the financial world runs but it is what it is.

 

[dos.reboot]

Lots of US distributors explicitly offer "free shipping".

 

[SolidStates]

Cointaker is selling Led Zeppelin Pro NIB for 4995 with free shipping. Not sure how that falls into the grand scheme of things but doesn't seem to line up with Stern pricing and nobody seems to be worried about them;

LED ZEPPELIN Stern PRO PINBALL

Led Zeppelin Pinball Machine from Stern Pinball

cointaker.com

 

[king_pin]

USA distributors also openly post games on Pinside for less than MSRP. This happens quite a bit with premiums where they are posted for 9500$ as opposed to 9700$.

Stern should be treating all dealers the same and banning those dealers as well I guess. Why let some bend the rules and not others?

 

[MrMikeman]

Some Stern games are allowed to sell below MSRP (the ones that sit forever), like LZ and some others.

 

[king_pin]

I realize this but what I'm referring to are these

For sale: Dungeons & Dragons: (Premium) Free Shipping

Dungeons & Dragons:The Tyrant’s EyeSTERN AUTHORIZED DELAERANY QUESTIONS ask for Aaron.FREE SHIPPING OR LOCAL DELIVERY ON NIB STERN GAMEShttp://www.SanDiegoAmusements.comMETALLICA REMASTERED PREMIUM (IN STOCK)The Uncanny X-Men Pro/Prem/LE (IN STOCK)The Beatles: Gold Edition Pinball Machine (IN...

pinside.com

NIB D&D from an authorized dealer for under MSRP and with free shipping.

 

[Joker19]

At the end of the day, there is nothing free, but if a distro offers free shipping or discounts on accessories or free setup up. Those are all costs that the distro is eating, he is still selling the pins for the price Stern dictates.

The thing here was Mana disrupted the other distro by actually caring and offering better services meaning his profit margins were lower and they got mad for that.

To this I say: Suck it up and offer better services.

This is what real competition should be like.

In the world the other distros want us to live, the only winners is them and the customer is shit out of luck.

 

[ManaPinball.com]

Thank you all for the kind words and support as always. The pinball community here is pretty amazing. That was one of the main reasons for me getting back into the pinball scene. I wanted to grow the hobby and community further to share the pinball love.

Re: Pricing. I'm not sure if there's separate rules for specific distributors. I was told everyone pays the same for the machines and has to charge the same, but who knows for certain. When a sale is made, I check the conversion that day and charge that. No additional 'conversion fees' or anything else.

Re: Shipping discounts. that's the only thing we were allowed to play with price wise. No fancy accounting tricks lol

There was definitely some direct line communicating going on. Not sure to what extent, but I will say this. The day I'm told I'm no longer an authorized dealer, a certain distributor contacted a FB page I was sponsoring with a Mana Pinball banner pic at the top, telling them I'm no longer an authorized dealer and they wish to take that spot. How they knew that without a direct line is interesting as I hadn't told a soul yet.

 

[Smokezz]

Wasn't Nitro the guy who was accused of harassing women a few years ago?

It's not hard to find most of the details on Facebook if you look. Some things have been deleted, since people delete their accounts on Facebook or the content... but most of it is still there.

Northwest Pinball & Arcade Show

It has come to our attention that last night at a local Tacoma bar the owner of Nitro Pinball, one of our sponsors, behaved in a way that was not appropriate or acceptable towards women. His actions...

www.facebook.com

 

[SolidStates]

I've sent an email to Stern also. Not sure if it will help, but if it works was well worth the effort

 

[king_pin]

Which destination email did everyone use when sending emails to stern about this?

 

[Joker19]

Which destination email did everyone use when sending emails to stern about this?

I used their website contact us portion

 

[MoPin]

it sounds to me like Nitro Pinball was likely the culprit of the complaints, especially being P1A has been for sale and has its guards down at this time. We saw conflicts arise between Phil at Nitro Quebec and Mana right here on PinBall Rev about the sale of pinballs. And with a typical profits of $1000-$1500 per game, Nitro is seeing opportunities to expand their business into ON at the expense of Mana especially when they can potentially snatch up between $110,000-$165,000 for their complaint efforts each year.

I am sure with some of Mana’s pins landing into the Quebec area, and it gave Phil at Nitro reasons or at least concerns that he justified as a complaint to Stern. We also don’t hear nothing from Nitro Quebec these days likely because he is too busy complaining and waiting for Stern to remove Mana as a distributor. Tommy at Nitro has been expanding across Canada with some type of local distribution, and he is also growing further in the Western USA so I am sure Tommy and Phil are licking their lips of snatching up more Ontario business and saw an opportunity to screw with Jeff at Mana And set up another local shop somewhere in ON. I guess we will wait and see how long before Nitro attempts that set up.

 

[dos.reboot]

Nitro never has nor ever will see a dime of my money.

 

[msmith79]

It's not hard to find most of the details on Facebook if you look. Some things have been deleted, since people delete their accounts on Facebook or the content... but most of it is still there.

Northwest Pinball & Arcade Show

It has come to our attention that last night at a local Tacoma bar the owner of Nitro Pinball, one of our sponsors, behaved in a way that was not appropriate or acceptable towards women. His actions...

www.facebook.com

It's also still on Colin (Kineticist) news website, Tommy had to step down until the shit storm was over.
They managed to get the thread removed from pinside. I wouldn't be surprised if this thread disappear too.
See #5 https://twip.kineticist.com/p/this-week-in-pinball-may-27th-2019-2

Been thinking about this. Now I'm not saying this is what happened, but if Mana was offering things like "No tax" or "Free shipping", then they did in fact break the terms of their contract with Stern.

Corporate/business accounting isn't open for interpretation. There is no such thing as "free" in the accounting world. I can assure you that Day & Ross aren't moving cargo for free. Let's say they are paid $500 for their services.

For example, if they have to Mana a product for a minimum price of $10,000, and were offering "free shipping" then in reality, the commercial transaction is $10,000-$500 in shipping = $9500. This would mean that Mana were breaking the terms of their contract with Stern by selling under the minimum price.

Creative accounting isn't a thing in the real corporate/business world.

Obviously as customers we only care about the lowest cost to our wallet, but as a distributor you have to play by the rules and alternate realities of accounting for business expenses don't apply.

This is all speculation on my part at this point as I hadn't had a chance to buy a Stern from Mana yet. Also not saying I agree with how the financial world runs but it is what it is.

Talking about sales gimmicks, I know for a fact that both P1 and Nitro did deals below MSRP on new in box games. I have friends that purchased NIB from Sam (P1 in Toronto) in the past year and they received discounts, usually 400-500$ on brand new titles (not during a Stern sale).

Nitro has been creative at breaking Stern guidelines too. Unbelievable to see those big companies breaking the rules constantly then having a straight shooter like Mana Pinball taking the fall. "Get a 400$ refund from the boss".

*FYI they also offered free shipping as you can see, I don't think free shipping was the problem. Many distributors in the US are shipping nationwide for free.



Now that P1 sold again to a Japanese company a few days ago and their service has been quite horrible from my past personal experience, that Nitro are playing extra dirty with these unfair business practices.That leaves pretty much no ethical choice in Canada to buy a pinball.

I emailed Stern too since this situation is unacceptable, they are clearly encouraging bullying and reprimanding the smaller guy, the only one that has not been breaking the rules. Unreal! What kind of management is that from Stern, can't get any more greedy. I wonder if Seth and upper management are aware of the situation.

 

[dos.reboot]

I've been told Tommy is still very much involved in the business.

 

[SheepyChris]

The timing on this announcement is very peculiar, tariffs have been ongoing for a month now... Obviously not being done as a good gesture but instead as a move to regain customers and present themselves as the "saviours" of the hobby despite the scummy back-alley business going on behind the scenes. I also can't imagine the profit margins they must make in order to be able to waive 25% off!

 

[Joker19]

The timing on this announcement is very peculiar, tariffs have been ongoing for a month now... Obviously not being done as a good gesture but instead as a move to regain customers and present themselves as the "saviours" of the hobby despite the scummy back-alley business going on behind the scenes. I also can't imagine the profit margins they must make in order to be able to waive 25% off!

View attachment 35240

So I think that's a lie from what was posted here:

https://www.pinballrevolution.com/threads/pinball-medics-25-tariff-surcharge.14798/post-99994

They are not absorbing anything, it's being cost recoverable pinballis not available within Canada (very simple summary from what Pat posted)

 

[SheepyChris]

So I think that's a lie from what was posted here:

https://www.pinballrevolution.com/threads/pinball-medics-25-tariff-surcharge.14798/post-99994

They are not absorbing anything, it's being cost recoverable pinballis not available within Canada (very simple summary from what Pat posted)

If honesty already wasn't on their side... How deep can the hole be dug?

 

[Paul DeCristofaro]

Om

Hey folks

Some unfortunate news. As of a few weeks back, we are no longer a Stern dealer. It was quite the journey from becoming one in April of '24. When I was first brought on, there wasn't a guide or anything so I asked some questions. Mainly, where I can sell and was told no restrictions. I was however, warned when getting onboard that the Canadian distribution scene is very competitive. No problem. Should be plenty of room for one more. Pretty well within a week of opening, I heard from my sales rep of a complaint from a fellow Canadian distributor. So it begins! We started off selling online, but as sales picked up and trades started coming in, we started to look for a standalone location.

I would hear regularly of complaints from, get this, never a customer, but rather other Canadian distributors. Why they care about other distributor complaints is beyond me. If I ran the company, I would care what customers thought, to which I heard overwhelming positive feedback (and a breath of fresh air compared to the competitors). These complaints continued. I would get numerous calls from my reps saying they're getting complaints about me breaking rules, despite having any proof. As I was going down to pick up my X-Men machines in October, I was 30 minutes from Chicago (of my 7h drive) when I get a call from my rep and I'm told I'm not allowed to get them because of complaints from other distributors. I was told I can't have them until theirs are ready to be shipped, so I had to leave Chicago empty handed and come back the following week to get them once I get the word, even though I had numerous launch parties depending on me. After a long week of driving and many, many, deliveries we got through it and got everyone their machines with smiles. No apology, compensation or otherwise for the inconvenience.

Before committing to my lease and standalone location, I asked my sales rep how things we're going. I was told I'm doing exceptionally well for a new dealer, am doing amazing things for the pinball community and Stern is behind me 100%. Awesome. let's do this. We had an amazing grand opening with over 225 people coming out. I heard it resonated through Stern and they were all very excited about it.

Complaints continued and escalated once a competitor learned of me shipping machines all over Canada and being able to do it more competitively while still following Stern's pricing guidelines. I then get the call from the head of sales that they brought me on too soon and it started affecting the market, and that I'm no longer an authorized dealer. Would have been nice to know this before getting a dedicated place and spending many tens of thousands of dollars.

I believe I was a victim of my own success and ruffled too many feathers of the old boys club. I was told that my sales reps 'defended me' numerous times in higher up meetings. Defended me against what you ask? good question. Likely more absurd, unfounded complaints.

I sold ~110 new machines in ~10 months. My rough, back of the napkin math suggests that's 20-25% of the Canadian market share, but I can't be certain. It was a very fun 10 months! I met a lot of cool people. Thank you all for the experiences and support along the way!

As of now, I still have some new product in stock and quite a few good quality used machines. If anyone is looking at a larger buy, let me know and we can work something out.

There's plenty more I could share, but I'll leave it at that for now.

Thanks to you all.

Jeff

Omg very sad to hear .. Jeff you have been amazing guy and customer service it's been a great adventure